布林肯接受CNBC訪問 DoS 20240116 / Taimocracy翻譯

【雙魚之論】英文拷到G/D找中文翻譯
Unlike the political bias often seen in talk show hosts and VIPs, Secretary Antony Blinken clearly explains his vision and roadmap for the security of the Middle East, including Israel, Gaza, and Palestine. He integrates all the elements into a cohesive picture. It aligns with my long-standing consideration to achieve peace in the Middle East, requiring only time – Israel recognizing the State of Palestine, and its Arabian neighbors normalizing relations with and guaranteeing the security of Israel.
The achievement of this vision is highly probable if there is no disruption from Hamas on October 7 and others, especially Iran, which considers its security dependent on the unrest in the Arab Peninsula. Russia has an interest in diverting attention from Ukraine to the Middle East, distracting the concerns of the US and Europe.
Secretary Blinken also emphasizes the importance of security around the Taiwan Strait, touching not only on the semiconductor supply chain, as some Taiwanese media have pointed out, but also the sea lanes, which account for approximately 50% of global trade.
He carefully avoids discussing the dysfunction of Washington or the potential impact of Trump's reelection as the US President in 2024. That, he suggests, is an unpredictable event.

不同於脫口秀主持人和重要嘉賓常見的政治偏見，國務卿安東尼·布林肯清楚地闡釋了他對中東安全的願景和路線圖，包括以色列、加薩和巴勒斯坦在內。他將所有元素融入一幅完整的畫面。這也我構思中東和平的願景一致，只是需要時間 – 以色列承認巴勒斯坦國，阿拉伯鄰國化與以色列正常化且保證以色列的安全。
如果10月7日及其他時刻哈馬斯等沒有干擾，尤其是伊朗，其安全受阿拉伯半島動盪影響，實現這一願景的可能性很高。相對的，俄羅斯有興趣將注意力從烏克蘭轉移到中東，分散美國和歐洲的關注。
布林肯國務卿還強調了維護台灣海峽安全的重要性，不僅觸及一些台灣媒體所指出的半導體供應鏈，還包括佔全球貿易約50%的海運航道。
他巧妙地避免討論華盛頓的機能失調或川普在2024年可能再次當選美國總統的潛在影響。那是一個不可預測的事件。 

布林肯接受CNBC訪問　Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Andrew Sorkin of CNBC　　DoS　/Taimocracy翻譯 20240116

 

QUESTION:  I want to thank the Secretary for joining us today.  It’s great to see you – SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Good to see you, Andrew.

問題：　我要感謝國務卿今天加入我們。很高興見到你– 布林肯國務卿：　很高興見到你，安德魯。

 

QUESTION:  — here in Davos.  This is your first interview since a lot of things have happened.  The Taiwan election results have come in, the UK joint attacks on the Houthis in the Red Sea and since the conclusion of this 10-day stop.  And now you’re here in Davos.  The president of Israel is on his way here; the premier of China is here; you now have President Zelenskyy of Ukraine here. So a lot going on, and we want to touch on all of these different component parts.  But you just got off a plane this morning here.  What is your ultimate goal in terms of coming to Davos and what are you trying to do? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, first, when you went through that litany of things, it shows you why, for better or worse, we’re in a growth industry these days.  But look, here in Davos, it’s an incredible convening point.  You’ve got, of course, leaders from the entire world coming here, including from many of the places you just mentioned.  You, of course, have an extraordinary showing from the private sector – critical partners in so much of what we’re trying to do around the world.  Have everyone in the same place at the same time – not only convenient, it also creates some really interesting – what’s the word? – synergies, just bringing people together in interesting ways.  Davos is a great place to do that.	問題：　－在達沃斯。發生了很多事情之後，這是你第一次接受採訪。台灣選舉結果出來了，英國聯合打擊紅海胡塞武裝組織也結束了這10天的訪問。現在您來到了達沃斯。以色列總統正在趕來的路上；中國總理來了；現在這裡有烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基。 很多事情在發生，我們想討論所有這些不同的組成部分。但你今天早上才在這裡下飛機。您來達沃斯的最終目標是什麼？您想做什麼？ 布林肯部長：　嗯，首先，當您經歷了這一連串的事情時，它會向您展示為什麼無論好壞，我們現在處於一個增長的行業。但在達沃斯這裡，這是一個令人難以置信的聚集點。當然，全世界的領導人都來到這裡，包括你剛才提到的許多地方。當然，私部門的表現非常出色，他們是我們在世界各地努力進行的許多工作的關鍵合作夥伴。讓每個人同時出現在同一個地方——不僅方便，而且還創造了一些非常有趣的東西——這個詞是什麼？–協同效應，只是以有趣的方式將人們聚集在一起。達沃斯是實現這一目標的好地方。
QUESTION:  Let’s go down the list of maybe crises, or big – at least hot topics that are being discussed here, starting with U.S.-China relations as it relates to the Taiwan election.  New president in place.  You came out with some comments congratulating him on his victory.  What do you believe it means for U.S. and China right now?  Does it up the risk that something’s going to happen? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, look, it means a few things.  First and foremost, we congratulated the president-elect, but also the people of Taiwan on their robust democracy, and the great example that that sets not just for the region but for the entire world.  When it comes to Taiwan itself and when it comes to cross-strait relations, we are focused on one thing, and one thing intensely, with many other countries around the world: peace, stability, no change to the status quo, the peaceful resolution of any differences. And there’s a reason that that matters, and it matters to virtually everyone here in Davos.  You know this.  Fifty percent of the world’s commerce every single day goes through that strait.  The semiconductors made on Taiwan are powering the world in every conceivable way.  If that’s interrupted or disrupted in any way, it’s bad for everyone.	問題：　讓我們逐一列出這裡討論的可能存在的危機，或至少是熱門話題，首先是與台灣選舉有關的美中關係。新總統就任。你發表了一些評論，祝賀他的勝利。您認為這對美國和中國現在意味著什麼？這會增加發生事情的風險嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　嗯，這意味著一些事情。首先也是最重要的，我們祝賀總統當選人，也祝賀台灣人民強大的民主制度，這不僅為該地區而且為全世界樹立了榜樣。就台灣本身，就兩岸關係，我們和世界上許多國家都在關注一件事，並且強烈關注一件事：和平、穩定、不改變現狀、和平解決任何差異。 這很重要，而且對達沃斯的幾乎每個人都很重要。你知道這個。每天世界上百分之五十的貿易都經過該海峽。台灣製造的半導體正在以各種可以想像的方式為世界提供動力。如果這種情況以任何方式中斷或擾亂，對每個人都不好。
QUESTION:  Okay.  So but let me then ask you about what has turned into a war of words.  You congratulate him; this is the China foreign ministry spokesman saying that your comments, quote, “send a gravely wrong signal to the Taiwan independence separatist forces.  We strongly deplore and firmly oppose this, and have made serious representations to the U.S. side.”  What do you make of that? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  As it happens, I met just a day before the election with a very senior Chinese leader in Washington.  This was one of the questions that we focused on.  And we’ve made very clear what we stand for when it comes to Taiwan and China.  First, we’ve had a “one China” policy for a long time.  That remains our policy; it won’t change, and we’ve reaffirmed that.  At the same time, as I said, we are standing resolutely for maintaining the status quo, for peace and stability. China has to make decisions about what it will do and what it won’t do.  But I think the approach that they’ve shown in recent years has actually been totally counterproductive to their interests.  By trying to exert pressure on Taiwan – economic pressure, military pressure, diplomatic pressure, isolation – it’s only reinforced many of the very people that they don’t want to reinforce.	問題：　好的。那麼，就讓我問一下，到底如何演變成一場口水戰。你祝賀他；中國外交部發言人表示，你的言論「向台獨分裂勢力發出了嚴重錯誤的訊號」。我們對此表示強烈不滿和堅決反對，已向美方提出嚴正交涉。你對此有何看法？ 布林肯國務卿：　碰巧的是，就在選舉前一天，我在華盛頓會見了一位非常高級的中國領導人。這是我們關注的問題之一。我們已經非常明確地表明了我們在台灣和中國方面的立場。首先，我們長期以來有「一個中國」政策。這仍然是我們的政策；它不會改變，我們已經重申了這一點。同時，正如我所說，我們堅決主張維持現狀、維護和平與穩定。 中國必須就該做什麼、不做什麼做出決定。但我認為他們近年來所採取的做法實際上完全違背了他們的利益。透過試圖對台灣施加壓力——經濟壓力、軍事壓力、外交壓力、孤立——只會強化許多原本不想強化的人。
QUESTION:  But do you think this message is getting confused?  Because right after you congratulated him, President Biden was asked about the election as well; he came out and he said, “We do not support independence.”  That goes to the “one China” policy.  So at the same time, we’re saying democracy is great, but actually independence is not. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  No, that’s been our – that’s been our policy for as long as I can remember, and it remains our policy.  And again, it’s a policy that ensures to the best of our ability that we have peace, that we have stability, that we don’t have a status quo that’s disrupted in ways that are going to have repercussions for everyone around the world. QUESTION:  What do you think the risk is, though, that there ultimately is a takeover?  President Xi has said that he ultimately wants to bring Taiwan fully into China.  I spoke with the prior president – or maybe she’s still the current president, but – just last year at the DealBook conference.  And she said that she didn’t believe that the Chinese could pursue a takeover, given their economic challenges today.  Do you believe that’s accurate? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, I’m not going to speculate; I’m not going to get into hypotheticals.  I can just tell you what we’re focused on, which is maintaining peace and stability.  And we’ve been very clear with China about that; we’ve been very clear with Taiwan about that.  And that’s what we’re focused on. At the same time, we have a big, vitally important relationship with China.  It’s probably both the most complex and arguably the most consequential of any relationship we have.  We’re also focused on that.	問題：　但是您是否認為此訊息有些混亂？因為就在你祝賀拜登總統之後，他也被問到了選舉的情況；他站出來說：「我們不支持獨立。」這涉及「一個中國」政策。所以，我們同時說民主偉大，但實際上獨立並不偉大。 布林肯國務卿：　不，這就是我們的政策－從我有記憶以來，這就是我們的政策，而且仍然是我們的政策。再說一次，這項政策盡我們最大的能力確保我們擁有和平、穩定，確保我們的現狀不會被破壞，從而對世界各地的每個人產生影響。 問題：　您認為最終發生接管台灣的風險是什麼？習主席曾表示，他最終希望將台灣完全納入中國。我剛剛在去年的DealBook會議上與前任主席進行了交談，也許她仍然是現任主席。她表示，考慮到當前的經濟挑戰，她不相信中國人可以尋求接管台灣。您認為這是準確的嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　我不會猜測；我不打算進行假設。我可以告訴你我們的重點是什麼，就是維護和平與穩定。我們已經向中國明確表示了這一點；我們已經向台灣明確表示這一點。這就是我們關注的重點。 同時，我們與中國有著廣泛且至關重要的關係。它可能是我們擁有的所有關係中最複雜、也可以說是最重要的。我們也關注這一點。
QUESTION:  Let me ask you a question, because we’ve been talking to a lot of CEOs here, including folks who make chips – Intel, Qualcomm, and so many others.  We’re – we have a big effort in the United States to try to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. – ultimately by 2030 to be chip-independent.  If and when that happens, does Taiwan become more or less strategically important to the United States? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, first, you’re exactly right that we have a major effort underway.  And one of the major achievements of this administration, of President Biden, has been this investment in ourselves – including, notably, with the CHIPS and Science Act, to make sure that we have that manufacturing capacity here. But, look, this is going to take some time.  Taiwan remains vitally important when it comes to chips.  And as I said, beyond chips, 50 percent of the world’s commerce goes through that strait every single day.  That’s not going to change. QUESTION:  And so it will always be strategically — SECRETARY BLINKEN:  It will always be important. QUESTION:  Are you planning to meet with anyone from the Chinese delegation while you’re here in Davos? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  I don’t think we’re crossing over.  But as I said, we had a very senior Chinese official in Washington just a couple of days ago. QUESTION:  Are we supposed to read anything, though, into that? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  No. QUESTION:  They have a big delegation here this year. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  No, no, no.  Quite literally, we had one of their most senior foreign policy people in Washington.  We had extensive meetings with him – I did; Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor, did, and we’ll continue to do that.  Look, we’ve – since my trip to Beijing this past summer, we’ve re-engaged at every senior level, the most important between President Biden and President Xi.  That engagement continues.  It’s really important that we have this ongoing, high-level communication – first, to make sure that we avoid any miscalculations, miscommunication, because — QUESTION:  Do you think there’s better communication?  Some people will say, “Oh, they’re in the same town together.  Why aren’t they meeting together?” SECRETARY BLINKEN:  No, no.  Look at the track record over the last six months.  Look at the trip that I made, then many other members of the cabinet made, the Secretary of Treasury, Secretary of Commerce, John Kerry, but most important President Xi and President Biden.  And we – after that meeting in San Francisco, which produced real results good for the American people in a number of ways, we’re continuing that, and that effort will extend into this year.	問題：　讓我問您一個問題，因為我們已經與這裡的許多執行長進行了交談，其中包括晶片製造商-英特爾、高通以及許多其他公司。我們在美國做出了巨大努力，試圖將製造業帶回美國，最終在2030年實現晶片獨立。如果發生這種情況，台灣對美國的戰略重要性是否會增加或減少？ 布林肯國務卿：　首先，您說得對，我們正在進行一項重大努力。拜登總統本屆政府的主要成就之一就是對我們自己的投資，特別是《晶片和科學法案》，以確保我們在這裡擁有製造能力。 但是，這需要一些時間。在晶片方面，台灣仍然至關重要。正如我所說，除了晶片之外，全球50%的貿易每天都要經過這條海峽。這不會改變。 問題：　因此，這總是策略性的— 布林肯國務卿：　這永遠都很重要。 問題：　您計劃在達沃斯期間與中國代表團中的任何人會面嗎？ 布林肯部長：　我認為我們沒有跨越。但正如我所說，幾天前，我們在華盛頓有一位非常高級的中國官員。 問題：　我們是否應該對此進行進一步解讀？ 布林肯國務卿：　不。 問題：　今年他們派了一個大型代表團來到這裡。 布林肯國務卿：　不，不，不。毫不誇張地說，我們在華盛頓擁有他們最資深的外交政策人士之一。我們與他進行了廣泛的會面——我有；國家安全顧問傑克·蘇立文也有，我們將繼續這樣做。自從我去年夏天訪問北京以來，我們在各個高層重新進行了接觸，其中最重要的是拜登總統和習主席之間的接觸。這種接觸仍在持續。我們進行這種持續的高層溝通非常重要——首先，確保我們避免任何誤算、溝通不暢，因為—— 問題：　您認為有更好的溝通方式嗎？有些人會說：「哦，他們在同一個城鎮。他們為什麼不聚在一起？」 布林肯國務卿：　不，不。查看過去六個月的記錄。看看我的訪問，然後還有許多其他內閣成員，財政部長、商務部長、約翰·凱瑞，但最重要的是習主席和拜登總統。在舊金山舉行的那次會議之後，我們在許多方面為美國人民帶來了有益的實際成果，我們將繼續這項努力，這項努力將延續到今年。
QUESTION:  Let’s pivot to a number of other crises that are taking place around the world.  The Red Sea – let’s talk about the latest there, because since the U.S. and UK launched those joint strikes against the Houthis, Houthi targets in Yemen, there have now been a number of attacks since.  So how successful was that attack, and what does escalation at this point look like to you? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, first Andrew, the most important thing is this:  What are the stakes here?  We’ve not wanted to see escalation anywhere since October 7th.  I mean, we’re working every single day to prevent it, including in the Red Sea.  And when the Houthis started these attacks, we pressed very hard for them to stop, but without escalation of any kind.  The reason it’s so important there is this:  Here again, 15 percent of commercial traffic is going through that strait every single day, 30 percent of the world’s container ships.  We’re seeing international repercussions from these attacks.  Thousands of ships have had to reroute, go – move around the —and away from the Suez Canal.  It’s adding costs to everyone.  Insurance costs are going up; shipping times are going up.  That means that whatever’s being shipped is getting more expensive. This has been an attack on international commerce, international shipping, not an attack on Israel, not an attack on the United States.  That’s why more than 40 countries came together to condemn what the Houthis were doing.  It’s why other countries came together to say if this continues there are going to be consequences, not for purposes of escalating but for purposes of getting them to stop.	問題：　讓我們專注於世界各地正在發生的許多其他危機。紅海—我們來談談那裡的最新情況，因為自從美國和英國對也門胡塞武裝發動聯合打擊以來，現在已經發生了多起攻擊事件。那麼這次攻擊有多成功？您認為目前的升級情況如何？ 布林肯部長：　首先，安德魯，最重要的是：這裡的利害關鍵是什麼？自10月7日以來，我們不希望看到事態升級。我的意思是，我們每天都在努力防止這種情況發生，包括在紅海。當胡塞武裝組織發動這些攻擊時，我們極力敦促他們停止，不造成任何形式的升級。它如此重要的原因是：這裡每天有15%的商業交通經過該海峽，即世界上30%的貨櫃船。我們看到這些攻擊造成的國際影響。數以千計的船隻不得不改變航線，繞過蘇伊士運河並遠離蘇伊士運河。這增加了每個人的成本。保險費用上漲；運輸時間正在增加。這意味著無論運輸什麼東西都會變得更昂貴。 這是對國際商業、國際航運的攻擊，不是對以色列的攻擊，也不是對美國的攻擊。這就是為什麼40多個國家齊聚一堂譴責胡塞武裝組織的所作所為。這就是為什麼其他國家聚集在一起表示，如果這種情況繼續下去，將會產生後果，不是為了升級局勢，而是為了讓局勢停止。
QUESTION:  You were just in Israel.  The president of Israel is coming here.  You’ve spent time with Netanyahu as well.  When you talk about trying to eradicate Hamas, but at the same time there is a push, clearly, to help and have targeted strikes so that they avoid civilians, do you believe you can eradicate fully Hamas without civilian and innocent casualties? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  What we’re focused on is trying to make sure that October 7th never happens again.  That should be the bar; that should be the measure.  And Israel has made good progress in doing to Hamas what needs to be done so that it can’t do October 7th again.  That’s what Israel should be focused on.  That’s what we are focused on. At the same time, we’ve said from day one that how Israel does that matters vitally.  And that is especially true when it comes to civilian causalities.  Far too many Palestinians – innocent Palestinians – have been killed.  And of course, for those who are living in Gaza, they’re in a very, very difficult, dire situation.  We’re trying to get much more humanitarian assistance in to them. QUESTION:  So since your visit, Netanyahu said the following.  He said, “We are continuing the war to its conclusion – to total victory… No one will stop us.”  What do you make of that?  Was that a message to you and the United States? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  I can’t speak for the prime minister.  I can just tell you that from day one we’ve strongly supported Israel’s right to defend itself, strongly supported its right to try to ensure that October 7th never happens again, but at the same time we want to see this conflict come to an end as quickly as possible.  And until it does, we want to see everything possibly done to protect civilians and to get assistance to those who need it.  Too many people are suffering in this conflict, and we’re trying to do what we can to alleviate that suffering.	問題：　您剛剛在以色列。以色列總統要來這裡。您也曾與納坦雅胡相處過。當你談論試圖根除哈馬斯時，但同時顯然是在推動幫助和有針對性的打擊，以便他們避開平民，你相信你可以在不造成平民和無辜人員傷亡的情況下完全根除哈馬斯嗎？ 布林肯部長：　我們的重點是努力確保10月7日不再發生。那應該是限制；這應該是採取的措施。以色列在對哈馬斯採取必要行動方面已經取得了良好進展，以免其再次發生10月7日事件。這才是以色列應該關注的。這就是我們關注的重點。 同時，我們從第一天起就說過，以色列如何做到這一點至關重要。在涉及平民傷亡時尤其如此。太多的巴勒斯坦人——無辜的巴勒斯坦人——被殺害。當然，對於那些生活在加薩的人來說，他們的處境非常非常困難和可怕。我們正在努力為他們提供更多的人道援助。 問題：　自您造訪以來，納坦雅胡說了以下的話。他說：「我們將繼續戰爭直至結束——直至徹底勝利……沒有人會阻止我們。」你對此有何看法？這是向您和美國傳達的訊息嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　我不能代表總理發言。我可以告訴你，從第一天起，我們就強烈支持以色列自衛的權利，強烈支持其努力確保10月7日事件不再發生的權利，但同時我們希望看到這場衝突盡快結束。在此之前，我們希望看到盡一切可能保護平民並為需要幫助的人提供援助。太多人在這場衝突中受苦，我們正在盡力減輕這種痛苦。
QUESTION:  There is clearly a divide around the country and around the world about how the Israelis are going about this and about the U.S.’s support for it, including inside the White House itself, with members of government literally walking off the job.  I want to read you something that Speaker Johnson tweeted out in the past 24 hours.  He says, “Any government worker who walks off the job to protest U.S. support for our ally Israel is ignoring their responsibility and abusing the trust of taxpayers.  They deserve to be fired.”  What do you think of that? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  We’ve had – I can just speak for the State Department.  We’ve had a number of people in the department since October raise questions, raise concerns, raise criticisms of policies – policies that Israel is pursuing; polices that we’re pursuing.  And the kind of place that I want to have, the institution I want to have is a place where people feel comfortable doing that. QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  We have something called the dissent channel that allows anyone in the department to raise a concern.  We’ve had a number of those.  I read every single one of them. QUESTION:  But walking off the job —  SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look —  QUESTION:  Fire-able? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  From my perspective, I want to make sure that people feel that they can say what they believe, express themselves —  QUESTION:  But then do they ultimately have to get behind the position of the State Department? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  They need – they ultimately have to be on the job and do their jobs, but the main thing is this: people feel the need to speak up and speak out.  That’s a cherished part of our democracy.  It’s a cherished part of – in my view, of patriotism.  But people also need to be on the job, do the job.  Look, we see this across many administrations.  If the policies an administration is pursuing that individuals object to in a way that they can’t continue to work, well, that’s their decision.  That’s their choice.  They have to make that decision.	問題：　對於以色列如何處理此事以及美國對此的支持（包括白人內部），全國和世界各地顯然存在分歧。眾議院本身，政府成員實際上已經辭職。我想唸一下詹森議長在過去24小時內發布的推文給你們聽。他說：「任何為了抗議美國支持我們的盟友以色列而辭職的政府工作人員都是無視自己的責任，濫用納稅人的信任。他們應該被解僱。」您對此有何看法？ 布林肯國務卿：　我們已經－我可以代表國務院發言。自10月以來，該部門的許多人對以色列正在推行的政策提出問題、擔憂、批評；我們正在推行的政策。我想要擁有的那種地方、我想要擁有的機構是一個人們可以放心這樣做的地方。 問題：　好的。 布林肯部長：　我們有一個叫做「異議管道」的東西，允許部門中的任何人提出疑慮。我們已經有很多這樣的了。我讀過其中每一份報告。 問題：　但是離職呢？-　 布林肯國務卿：　從—　 問題：　原因？ 布林肯國務卿：　從我的角度來看，我希望確保人們覺得他們可以說出自己的想法，表達自己—　 問題：　但是他們最終是否必須支持國務院的立場？ 布林肯國務卿：　他們要－他們最終必須投入工作並做好自己的工作，但最重要的是：人們感到有必要大聲疾呼並大聲疾呼。這是我們民主制度中珍貴的一部分。在我看來，這是愛國主義的珍貴組成部分。但人們也需要投入工作、做好工作。看，我們在許多政府中都看到了這一點。如果個人反對政府所推行的政策，以致他們無法繼續工作，那麼，離開就是他們的決定。這是他們的選擇。他們必須做出決定。
QUESTION:  Let me ask you a question about a two-state solution in Israel.  You’ve been working hard on that and starting to think about what things might look like on the other side.  There’s a lot of folks who are getting on board with you.  Netanyahu is not yet there yet – as are a number of folks in Israel itself.  In terms of the trust that the Israeli people have to have about their own security, do you imagine a two-state solution that doesn’t require some period of time where there is – for lack of a better word – an “occupation” of the Palestinian area for a period of time to create that trust? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look —  QUESTION:  Or do you think that undermines, ultimately, th e long-term trust of both sides? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, let me put it this way, Andrew.  First of all, there’s an incredibly powerful equation for Israel’s future, for its security, and it’s this – and it’s different than anything we’ve had in the past.  Unlike any time in the past, virtually all of its neighbors – its Arab neighbors, its Muslim neighbors – are prepared – indeed, want – to integrate Israel into the region.  And they’re prepared to give it the kind of security assurances and commitments and guarantees that they never would have given it in the past.  But they’re equally committed to a pathway to a Palestinian state, because they believe strongly – and we believe as well – that until that question is resolved, you’re never —   QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  — really going to have peace and stability, and for that matter, Israel is never going to know true security.  So when you put together integration in the region, Israel’s normalization of relations with every country, security assurances and commitments, a Palestinian state, you’ve created an entirely new region.  And then Israel’s biggest challenge, biggest problem – for us as well – Iran – is isolated.  It answers that problem very powerfully as well. Now, Israel in this moment, of course, is focused on Gaza.  It’s focused on October 7th.  But when that ends, they have to make fundamental decisions about their future.  These are hard decisions, not easy to do, but there’s a new equation that – in a way that was never possible in the past is possible now. QUESTION:  Do you need a new leader of the Palestinian Authority to do it? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  You need – you need governments, leaders that are prepared —  QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  — to make hard decisions. QUESTION:  But is the Palestinian Authority ultimately the right ruling authority?  And is the person who is in charge of that Palestinian Authority right now the person who you think can actually bring this all together? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, we’ve said that we would welcome – more than welcome – I think we need to see reform of the Palestinian Authority to make sure that it’s delivering for its people — QUESTION:  That means a new leader? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  — that it has the capacity to do that.  It means a whole variety of things.  The Palestinians have to decide that for themselves.  A number of other leaders in the region are talking —	問題：　我想問您一個有關以色列「兩國解決方案」的問題。你一直在努力做到這一點，並開始思考事情的另一面會是什麼樣子。有很多人正在加入你的行列。納坦雅胡還沒有達到這一目標——以色列國內的許多人也是如此。就以色列人民必須對自身安全抱持的信任而言，您是否可以想像一種不需要一段時間的「兩國解決方案」——因為缺乏更好的詞——「佔領」巴勒斯坦？巴勒斯坦地區能否在一段時間內建立這種信任？ 布林肯國務卿：　讓我這樣說，　 問題：　或您認為這最終會損害雙方的長期信任嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　讓我這樣說，安德魯。首先，對於以色列的未來和安全來說，有一個極其強大的方程式，就是這樣——它與我們過去經歷過的任何事情都不同。與過去任何時候不同的是，幾乎所有鄰國——阿拉伯鄰國、穆斯林鄰國——都準備好——事實上，希望——將以色列融入該地區。他們準備給予其過去從未給予過的安全保障、承諾和保證。但他們同樣承諾致力於建立巴勒斯坦國，因為他們堅信——我們也相信——在這個問題得到解決之前，你永遠不會-　 問題：　正確。 布林肯國務卿：　－真正會實現和平與穩定，就這一點而言，以色列永遠不會有真正的安全。因此，當你把該地區的一體化、以色列與每個國家的關係正常化、安全保障和承諾、巴勒斯坦國放在一起時，你就創造了一個全新的地區。然後，以色列最大的挑戰、最大的問題——對我們來說也是如此——伊朗——是孤立的。它也非常有力地回應了這個問題。 現在，以色列此時此刻的注意力當然集中在加薩。重點是10月7日。但當這一切結束時，他們必須對自己的未來做出根本性的決定。這些都是艱難的決定，不容易做到，但有一個新的方程式——以一種過去不可能的方式現在成為可能。 問題：　您是否需要巴勒斯坦權力機構的新領導人來做這件事？ 布林肯國務卿：　你需要－你需要做好準備的政府和領導人－ 問題：　正確。 布林肯國務卿：　—做出艱難的決定。 問題：　但巴勒斯坦權力機構最終是正確的統治當局嗎？您認為現在負責巴勒斯坦權力機構的人是真正能夠將這一切整合在一起的人嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　我們說過我們會歡迎—非常歡迎—我認為我們需要看到巴勒斯坦權力機構的改革，以確保它能夠實現它的人民—— 問題：　這意味著有一位新領導者？ 布林肯國務卿：　—它有能力做到這一點。它意味著各種各樣的事情。巴勒斯坦人必須自己做決定。該地區的許多其他領導人正在談論—　 問題：　您認為巴勒斯坦人民準備好這樣做了嗎？ 布林肯國務卿：　我認為巴勒斯坦領導人—但更重要的是巴勒斯坦人民—他們最想要什麼？他們最希望能夠實現有效的治理。現在這需要兩件事。它本身就需要有效的治理。它還要求以色列支持巴勒斯坦權力機構，以便它有機會實現目標。這兩件事需要結合在一起。
QUESTION:  Do you think the Palestinian people are prepared to do that? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  I think the Palestinian leaders – but more important, the Palestinian people – what do they most want?  They most want effective governance that can deliver.  Now that requires two things.  It requires in and of itself effective governance.  It also requires Israel to be supportive of a Palestinian Authority so that it has a chance to deliver.  Those two things need to come together. QUESTION:  Right.  How far away do you think they are on that? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Listen, right now in the middle of this conflict, it’s hard when you’ve really plunged into that to necessarily see that future.  But I think it could be on us relatively quickly, because this conflict will end, and when it does, decisions have to be made.  You’re in a place right now where, again, Arab countries, including countries like Saudi Arabia, are prepared to do things in their relationship with Israel they were never prepared to do before.  That opens up an entirely different future, a much more secure future, but you have to resolve the Palestinian question.  Arab countries are saying this – they’re saying: look, we’re not going to get into the business – for example – of rebuilding Gaza only to have it leveled again —  QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  — in a year or five years and then be asked to rebuild it again.  We’ve got to also get to the fundamentals.  And in terms of Israel’s own security, the Arab piece of the equation ,and the Palestinian piece, that’s the way to true, lasting security.	問題：　好的。您認為他們在這方面還有多遠？ 布林肯國務卿：　聽著，現在正處於這場衝突之中，當你真正投入其中時，很難看到未來。但我認為這可能會相對快速地發生在我們身上，因為這場衝突將會結束，而當它結束時，我們必須做出決定。現在，阿拉伯國家，包括沙烏地阿拉伯等國家，再次準備在與以色列的關係中做一些他們以前從未準備過的事情。這開啟了一個完全不同的未來，一個更安全的未來，但你必須解決巴勒斯坦問題。阿拉伯國家是這麼說的──他們是說：看，我們不會介入此事──例如，重建加薩只是為了讓它再次被夷為平地──　 問題：　正確。 布林肯部長：　－一年或五年後，然後被要求再次重建。我們還必須回到根本。就以色列自身的安全、阿拉伯國家和巴勒斯坦國家的安全而言，這才是真正、持久的安全之道。
QUESTION:  Let’s pivot now to the issue of Ukraine.  You spent some time with President Zelenskyy right here in Davos just this morning.  What are you talking about? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Oh, skiing – no, we, of course, are focused on the ongoing Russian aggression against Ukraine.  And even as we speak, the Russians continue to launch missiles at Ukrainian infrastructure, at civilians, at apartment buildings.  So we talked about two things.  We’re focused on making sure that Ukraine has what it needs to get strongly through this next year, 2024. QUESTION:  Does it – does it have enough? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  So we need to do two things.  We need to make sure that, with Congress — QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  — we get the supplemental funding that President Biden has asked for.  We’re working very hard on that.  I believe strongly that there is bipartisan support in both houses.  We just need to — QUESTION:  What happens if it – what happens if it doesn’t? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, there’s no magic pot of money.  If we don’t get that money, it’s a real problem.  It’s a real problem for Ukraine.  I think it’s a problem for us and our leadership around the world.  But here’s the thing:  Of that money that we’re asking for, $50 billion gets spent right back in the United States on – that money to procure items for Ukraine’s defense, it’s made in America.  These are American jobs. Right now, we have our allies and partners around the world who are actually providing the majority of the support to Ukraine.  We have more burden sharing when it comes to Ukraine than in any other instance I can remember in the 30 years that I’ve been doing this.  So this is a common endeavor, and right now Russia continues to suffer a strategic failure in Ukraine.  We have a strong interest in making sure that persists.  And if we let Putin get away with this, if we drop our guard and everything we’re doing for Ukraine, then you open up Pandora’s box.  And he will not stop with Ukraine, and others, other would-be aggressors in other parts of the world, they’ll take the lesson. QUESTION:  What do you think he would do next? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, I think he would go full-tilt on Ukraine and then NATO countries.  And of course, if he attacked a NATO country, we have an Article 5 obligations under NATO to work to assist them.  That would bring us in directly. QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  We want to prevent that and make sure that doesn’t happen.  One last thing on this, though.  It’s so important.  This is not a forever war, and it’s not a forever expense for us either.  Even as we’re helping Ukraine in the moment to defend itself, working with dozens of other countries, we’re working so that Ukraine can stand strongly on its own two feet militarily, economically, democratically.  Private sector investment – our former Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker is working, leading the administration effort to get private sector investment in Ukraine.  Just came back from Ukraine with a delegation of CEOs.  There’s clearly tremendous opportunity there. We’re helping, with 30 other countries, to set them up with a force for the future so that they can deter aggression going forward.  And the reforms that they’re pursuing, that they have to pursue in order to get into the European Union and to attract private sector investment, you put those three things together, you can see a Ukraine that not only survives, but that thrives.  That’s the best answer to Putin, and it’s also the best answer for us because it means they’ll be able they’ll be able – they’ll be off on their own two feet.	問題：　現在我們來討論烏克蘭問題。今天早上您在達沃斯與澤倫斯基總統共度了一段時間。你在說什麼？ 布林肯國務卿：　哦，滑雪啊—不，我們當然關注的是俄羅斯對烏克蘭的持續侵略。就在我們說話的時候，俄羅斯人仍在繼續向烏克蘭基礎設施、平民和公寓大樓發射飛彈。所以我們討論了兩件事。我們的重點是確保烏克蘭擁有強勁度過明年（2024年）所需的一切。 問題：　它—夠嗎？ 布林肯部長：　因此我們需要做兩件事。我們需要與國會確保— 問題：　好的。 布林肯國務卿：　—我們得到了拜登總統要求的補充資金。我們正在為此努力。我堅信兩院都得到了兩黨的支持。我們只需要— 問題：　如果滿足會發生什麼事？如果不滿足會發生什麼事？ 布林肯國務卿：　看，沒有什麼神奇的錢。如果我們拿不到這筆錢，那就是一個真正的問題。這對烏克蘭來說是一個真正的問題。我認為這對我們和我們在世界各地的領導層來說都是一個問題。但事情是這樣的：在我們要求的資金中，有500億美元直接花在了美國——這筆錢用於採購烏克蘭國防物品，這些物品是美國製造的。這些都是美國的工作。 目前，我們在世界各地的盟友和合作夥伴實際上為烏克蘭提供了大部分支持。在烏克蘭問題上，我們分擔的負擔比我記憶中30年來的任何其他情況都要多。所以這是一項共同的努力，而目前俄羅斯在烏克蘭繼續遭受戰略失敗。我們非常有利益來確保這種情況持續下去。如果我們讓普丁逍遙法外，如果我們放鬆警惕，放棄我們為烏克蘭所做的一切，那麼你就會打開潘朵拉魔盒。他不會停止對烏克蘭和其他國家、世界其他地區的其他潛在侵略者的打擊，他們會學到教訓。 問題：　您認為他下一步會做什麼？ 布林肯國務卿：　我認為他會全力攻擊烏克蘭，然後是北約國家。當然，如果他攻擊北約國家，根據北約第五條規定，我們有義務努力協助他們。那將直接將我們捲進來。 問題：　好的。 布林肯部長：　我們希望防止這種情況發生，並確保這種情況不會發生。不過，最後一件事。這非常重要。這不是一場永遠的戰爭，對我們來說也不是永遠的開銷。即使我們目前正在幫助烏克蘭保衛自己，並與其他數十個國家合作，我們也在努力使烏克蘭能夠在軍事、經濟和民主方面堅強地自立。私部門投資—我們的前商務部長彭妮·普利茨克（Penny Pritzker）正在領導政府在烏克蘭爭取私部門投資的工作。剛帶著執行長代表團從烏克蘭回來。那裡顯然存在著巨大的機會。 我們正在與其他30個國家一起幫助他們建立一支面向未來的部隊，以便他們可以阻止未來的侵略。他們正在推行的改革，為了加入歐盟和吸引私部門投資而必須推行的改革，將這三件事放在一起，你可以看到烏克蘭不僅生存下來，而且蓬勃發展。這是對普丁的最佳答案，也是對我們的最佳答案，因為這意味著他們將能夠做到——他們將自力更生。
QUESTION:  We’ve talked about a number of issues around the world that you’re dealing with now.  I’m curious if you look at them and think of them as all idiosyncratic unto themselves, or you think that the United States, our role and influence – and perhaps diminished influence –has impacted and helped create these moments.  You’ve heard a lot of critique about that. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, here’s what I’ve taken away from about 30 years of doing this.  One, when America is not engaged, when we’re not leading, then one of two things.  Either someone else is – and maybe not in a way that advances our interests and values – or maybe just as bad, no one is, and you get a vacuum that’s filled usually by bad things before it’s filled by good things.  What I’m hearing around the world everywhere I go is a thirst, a hunger, a desire for our engagement, for our leadership.  (Inaudible) — QUESTION:  But they also talk about the polarization in Washington and the dysfunction in Washington. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, we’ve done two things.  Yes, we have those challenges, and happily in this job, I don’t do politics back home.  But we’ve done two things that have been very powerful and that put us in a position of strength that we were not in in recent years.  One, as I said, we’ve made investments in ourselves, and people know that.  The CHIPS and Science Act, the Infrastructure Act, the IRA.  All of these things are resonating around the world because people see that we’re serious about our future. Second, the first thing that I was asked to do by President Biden was to roll up my sleeves and have everyone in the State Department party do the same thing: re-engage our alliances and partnerships, rejuvenate them, reimagine them in some cases.  And it’s those relationships, those partnerships that are so vital, because just as our leadership is essential, finding new ways to cooperate with others is more important than it’s ever been.  We’re doing that.  We have more convergence now, Andrew, with Europe, with Asia on how to deal with a Putin or how to deal with the challenges posed by China.	問題：　我們討論了您現在正在處理的世界各地的許多問題。我很好奇你是否認為它們各具特色，或者你認為美國、我們的角色和影響力——或許影響力正在減弱——影響並幫助創造了這些時刻。您已經聽到了很多對此的批評。 布林肯國務卿：　這是我在大約30年的工作中得到的收穫。第一，當美國不參與、不發揮領導作用時，就會出現以下兩種情況之一。要嘛是其他人——也許不是以一種促進我們的利益和價值觀的方式——要不可能同樣糟糕，是沒有人，你會得到一個真空，通常先被壞事填充，然後再被好東西填充。無論我走到哪裡，我都能聽到世界各地對我們的參與和領導的渴望、渴望和渴望。（聽不清楚）- 問題：　但他們也談論了華盛頓的兩極化和華盛頓的功能失調。 布林肯國務卿：　嗯，我們做了兩件事。是的，我們面臨這些挑戰，而且幸運的是，在這份工作中，我在國內不參與政治。但我們做了兩件非常有影響力的事情，使我們處於近年來未曾達到的強勢地位。第一，正如我所說，我們已經對自己進行了投資，人們都知道這一點。《CHIPS與科學法案》、《基礎建設法案》、《IRA》。所有這些事情都在世界各地引起共鳴，因為人們看到我們對未來的認真態度。 其次，拜登總統要求我做的第一件事就是捲起袖子，讓國務院黨內的每個人都做同樣的事情：重新建立我們的聯盟和夥伴關係，振興它們，在某些情況下重新構想它們。正是這些關係、這些夥伴關係如此重要，因為正如我們的領導力至關重要一樣，尋找與他人合作的新方式也比以往任何時候都更加重要。我們正在這樣做。安德魯，我們現在與歐洲、亞洲在如何應對普丁或如何應對中國帶來的挑戰方面有了更多的共識。
QUESTION:  One of the things that’s weighing over this entire meeting and a lot of conversations has been what’s going on in the United States in Iowa, and this being an election year.  What do you think happens if former President Trump becomes the president when it comes to all of these issues that you’re talking about internationally? SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Look, as I said, I don’t do politics.  I do do policies.  So what I’m focused on is trying to pursue the best possible foreign policy to advance the interests of the American people.  That’s what President Biden asked me to do – and the entire team – and that’s exactly what we’re doing.  We were talking about China earlier. QUESTION:  Right. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Well, one of the agreements that came out of the meeting between President Bidne and President Xi – that we worked on for months and that the President brought over the finish line – was an agreement from China to work productively with us on dealing with the number-one killer of Americans aged 18 to 49: fentanyl, a synthetic opioid.  We now have China cracking down on the companies that are making the chemical precursors that get shipped from halfway around the world, turned into fentanyl.  That’s something that’s making a real and practical difference in the lives of Americans. QUESTION:  Mr. Secretary, I want to thank you for joining us from Davos, Switzerland. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Good to be with you. QUESTION:  Thank you very much. SECRETARY BLINKEN:  Thanks, Andrew. QUESTION:  Thanks, guys.	問題：　影響整個會議和大量對話的一個問題是美國愛荷華州正在發生的事情，而今年是選舉年。對於您在國際上談論的所有這些問題，您認為如果前總統川普成為總統，會發生什麼？ 布林肯國務卿：　正如我所說，我不參與政治。我確實做政策。因此，我的重點是努力追求最佳的外交政策，以促進美國人民的利益。這就是拜登總統要求我以及整個團隊要做的事情，而這正是我們正在做的事情。我們之前討論過中國。 問題：　好的。 布林肯國務卿：　嗯，這是拜登總統和習主席會晤後達成的協議之一，我們花了幾個月的時間來達成該協議，並由總統完成了這項工作—是來自中國的一項協議，旨在與我們有效合作，應對18至49歲美國人的頭號殺手：芬太尼，一種合成鴉片類藥物。現在，中國正在打擊那些生產化學前體的公司，這些化學前體從大半個世界運來，轉化為芬太尼。這為美國人的生活帶來了真正而實際的改變。 問題：　先生國務卿，我要感謝您從瑞士達沃斯加入我們。 布林肯國務卿：　很高興和你在一起。 問題：　非常感謝。 布林肯國務卿：　謝謝安德魯。 問題：　謝謝大家。

https://chat.openai.com/c/769bfdfa-fe7d-4cef-83fc-ede90e41d43c