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2014-01-17

加泰隆尼亞議會提出「建國+獨立」公投要求

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議會通過的請求公投議案,有兩的公投問題:「你是否認為加泰隆尼亞應建國”“如果應建國,你是否希望這個國家獨立?」(“Do you want Catalonia to become a state? If yes, do you want this state to be independent?)

在此案例中,獨立與建國是不同的。而公投議題在邏輯上將「建國」放在「獨立」之前。換言之,暗示一種「沒有獨立的國格」之存在,那會是美國聯邦體制下的州嗎?是 state 卻沒有獨立。
注意到了嗎?公投是向「對象(國)」要的──蘇格蘭向UK國會,泰隆尼亞向西班牙國會。台灣公投的請願對象國呢?
請問~

加泰隆尼亞將公投 揭歐洲獨立潮○聯合(2014.01.17http://udn.com/NEWS/WORLD/WOR3/8431367.shtml
西班牙加泰隆尼亞自治區的地區議會十六日通過表決,將向國會尋求舉行獨立公投的權利,為歐洲今年的分離主義熱潮揭開序幕。歐洲聯盟正密切觀察表決結果的發展;比利時的德語區預定五月選舉時,尋求更廣泛的自治權利,蘇格蘭預計九月透過公投,決定是否脫離英國獨立。
加區的公投權利表決,是多年大舉示威的成果。加區議會十六日以八十七票贊成,四十三票反對,三人棄權通過議案,將向國會送交請願書,請求授權加區可舉行前途公投。
議會的表決僅是象徵性行動。加區可要求西班牙准許舉行這項獨立公投,西班牙也有權說「不」,且答案必然是「不」。
總理拉霍伊的政黨於國會有絕對多數,主要反對黨社會黨也反對公投。拉霍伊已多次以憲法載明西班牙國土不容分裂為由加以拒絕,並指出任何攸關西班牙整體的公投,必須以全國而非區域的方式舉行。

Catalan President Mas: "The country's good sense has made it possible to come to a consensus and agree on an inclusive, clear question, which enjoys broad support"Government of Catalonia2013.12.12http://premsa.gencat.cat/pres_fsvp/AppJava/notapremsavw/detall.do?id=236549&idioma=0
• The head of the Executive announced that the referendum will be held on November 9, 2014 and that it will contain a single question with two sections: "Do you want Catalonia to become a State?" and in case of an affirmative response, "Do you want this State to be independent?"
• Artur Mas asks the Spanish State to "be ready for this call from a people that wants to vote freely and absolutely peacefully and democratically"
The president of the Catalan Government, Artur Mas, announced today the consensus reached, among all of the political parties who are in favor of the right to decide, on the date, the question, and the process for holding a referendum on the political future of Catalonia.  The head of the Executive announced that the referendum will be held on November 9, 2014 and that it will have a question with two sections: "Do you want Catalonia to become a State?" and, in case of an affirmative response, "Do you want this State to be independent?  Yes or No."
The head of the Government underlined the fact that the question is "inclusive, clear, and enjoys very broad support".  He also revealed that the consensus was reached "quickly and discreetly", after only two days of negotiations.
Artur Mas appeared at midday in front of the media in the Gothic Gallery of the Generalitat Palace (seat of the Catalan Government), accompanied by the leaders of the political parties in favor of the right to decide, with whom he met this morning: Oriol Junqueras (ERC), Joan Herrera (ICV), and David Fernández (CUP). Also present were the Vice president of the Government, Joana Ortega, and the Councilor of the President, Francesc Homs.
The president publicly expressed his gratitude to the political parties that made the agreement possible and underscored their "spirit of collaboration, generosity of outlook, and profound sense of country".  "What we have before us has immeasurable historic significance and for the future," the president pointed out, and he added, "we will have to rise to the occasion." "We would have liked for the PSC to participate as well," regretted the president, but he insisted that there is a wide majority and "we must continue on the road that we have set out on."
The head of the Executive asked the Spanish State to be "ready to hear the demands of the Catalan people, and to this solid parliamentary and political majority, to a people that wants to decide its own future, that wants to vote in freedom and in a completely peaceful and democratic way."  The president affirmed that in the negotiations with the Spanish State, "we will go with our best hand extended, with wide majority support, and clear objectives," and he encouraged the Spanish institutions to facilitate holding a referendum, "just like in other parts of the European Union."
Artur Mas explained that the date of November 9, 2014 was chosen because "among all the possible dates, we arrived at the conclusion that it was the one that best favored the success of this democratic process".  And he pointed out that the formulation of the question allows "everyone who wishes for a change in status to be able to vote, and everyone who wants to vote for an independent State to also be able to vote." "In that way, we also honor the popular demand that wished to express itself in these terms," he said.
With respect to the procedure for holding a referendum, the president insisted that there are legal frameworks for holding it, and that the agreement for carrying out a referendum will be put into place next week in the Parliament of Catalonia.
The head of the Executive finished his appearance by pointing out that "today, in addition to stating clear objectives, we are also holding an act that represents the majority of the Catalan political system itself, and thus, of the country as a whole."

The plenary agreed to ask Congress delegation to the Government the power to call a referendum Parliament of Catalonia ( 01/16/2014 ) http://www.parlament.cat/web/actualitat/noticies?p_id=146477228
The plenary approved today submitted to Congress for a bill of Organic delegation of the Government the power to authorize, call and hold a referendum on the political future of Catalonia, with 87 votes in favor, 43 against and 3 abstentions.  Voted in favor of the initiative MPs CiU, ERC, ICV and socialists Marina Geli, Nuria Ventura and Joan Ignasi Elena, in contrast, the remaining sixteen members of the PSC, PPC and the C 's, and has CUP abstained .
The proposal, signed by groups of CiU, ERC and ICV CUP raises a bill that organic one article by article 150.2 of the Spanish Constitution, be delegated to the Government " competition for authorize, call and hold a referendum because the Catalans in deciding on the future political community of Catalonia, based on the terms agreed with the state government.  " Also fixed the announcement of the referendum will make the Catalan Government, and shall be held before the end of this 2014.
The four groups of developers submitted the proposal to Parliament record on December 13 last, the day after the announcement, the Palau de la Generalitat, the agreement between these formations to set the date and the question the query.  As announced by the President of the Generalitat, the consultation will be held on November 9, 2014, and the question in two parts, will be: 'Catalonia wants to become a state? ' and, if so, 'want this state to be independent ?'
Debate participants and authorities
Today's debate attended George Turull ( CiU ), Marta Rovira (ERC ), Mauritius Lucena (PSC ), Alicia Sánchez- Camacho (PPC ), Dolores Camats ( ICV ), Albert Rivera ( C 's) and Quim Arrufat ( CUP ) .
The session was followed by numerous boxes from the authorities, including the former President Jordi Pujol, former presidents of Parliament Ernest Benach, Joan Rigol, the Mayor of Barcelona, Xavier Trias, the trustee Aran Carlos Barrera, and the presidents of the provincial Barcelona, Tarragona and Lleida Salvador Esteve, Joan Josep Poblet Reñé.  MPs also attended the plenary of the House, Members of Congress, Senators and MEPs Catalan former Minister Ernest Maragall, President of the Local Government Council and the Catalan Association of Municipalities, Michael Buch, president of the Association of Municipalities for Independence, Joseph M. Villa Abadal, President of Omnium Cultural, Muriel Casals, and Vice President of the National Assembly Catalan Jaume Marfany, among others.
The President of the Generalitat, Artur Mas, and all board members were present government also filled in the first frame of the chamber .
Submission of the proposal in Madrid

Once approved, the President, Nuria de Gispert, will submit the proposal to Congress, and Parliament shall appoint three members to the defense when included in the agenda of a plenary session of the Chamber Spanish.

3 則留言:

  1. 看吧,這些今年要舉行獨立公投的地方,都有母國的存在!但台灣的母國是啥?

    台派朋友,想清楚沒?想清楚再來喊口號,不遲啦!

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  2. 俺這個厚臉皮的算命仙,再次不要臉地來大放厥詞了。用個比喻來解說,或許會彼此幫忙釐清一些概念:

    台南民眾公投,要建立台南國,脫離台灣政治體系獨立,自行制訂台南憲法,創建三權分立機構,發行台南貨幣,組織台南國會,軍隊,治安體系,公眾語文,全新稅制,另創教育 - - - - 。

    有政府,有土地,有人民。好,四缺一,剩下的,主權誰承認?這些之後,台南的外界又如何反應?有幾個可能性:

    第一部份 台灣內部:
    1. 台北方面看是誰執政,
    a. 若是KMT,派軍隊鎮壓的機率不高。承認?不可能。但必定透過整天媒體的砲轟。經濟啦,數典啦 - - - 放心,罄竹難書,一大土拉庫的內容都已罐裝好了!
    b. 若是綠巴子執政,不會派軍隊,但會啟用所有人情世故包圍,鼻涕眼淚轟炸的動之以情。
    2. 台灣其他地方,可能兩極化,一是背書台北,跟著作同樣動作,另一是學著台南,蠢蠢欲動。

    第二部份 世界各地:
    1. 北京高分貝叫囂,放聲要派大量PLA登南鎮壓,但都不敢真行動,其最大原因是:雖然華府宣稱,不承認,但華府也不動聲色,僅是和平勸說要台灣自己內部好好調理,請國際不要插手。
    2. 其他地區,東京惦惦不出聲。歐洲可能有數個小政府支持。

    即使這樣簡單勾畫,就可以很清楚看出:公投建國需有一個要針對的對象;要獨立也必須有個母體。台灣是台南的母體,台南是從台灣獨立出來了。說得通!但台灣的母體是啥?同理:加州從美利堅合眾國獨立,說得通,但美國需要獨立嗎?

    若說,台灣本獨立 (如:台灣是國論),那再試問上提的第二部份,世界有多少邦國承認台灣是國?畢竟國不國,絕對需要通過:誰承認?這關!不管是台南國,或台灣國,都碰到同樣的問題。甭說虛幻的未來,台灣目前連這關都無法解決了。

    台派碰到的就是這麼詭譎的現況,既無母國,又無人承認是主權邦國,換句話說,既不是男,也不是女。絕對不能說因不需獨立,所以就自動獨立了,這說不通的!是否獨立需有個先決條件,誰承認!難怪連歐美政治課堂內將台灣看成是世界政治體制中的最大怪物。

    台灣目前僅是受「台灣關係法」保護下,讓台灣有個行使自治行政的管理當局(台灣政府)罷了。將這台灣管理當局看成是主權邦國的話,那就等於是把剃頭師傅看成醫生囉!

    所以台派應該想好,再來喊口號,再來罵人,再來拍胸膛,不遲!只要走上正確方向,畢竟最後台灣民眾還是擁有最大的話語權的,

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    1. 自他交換,易地思考,十分清楚,非常佩服。
      只是這麼簡單,卻因為服務政治(意識型態,或運動的慣性),所以搞出四不像的「決議文」,至今仍不願意改變。
      佛經有許多比喻,以手指月(有人因此看到月亮,有人卻只看指頭,至死不渝),雖不太像卻勉強可說是其中之一。
      佩服

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